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Dervin 1997 Isms (sex,race,able-body)

Sense-Making Sample Interview

1997 Sexism Interview #1

EXPLANATION:
This interview is one example of those obtained as part of a 1997 univbersity advanced level class in interviewing conducted by Dervin and anonymous students. See Dervin 1997isms (sex, race, able-body) for explanation. Any reference to this interview should use the citation listed there.

This interview was implemented by
Respondent: male, 22 years old undergraduate student
Interviewer: male, undergraduate student, estimate in early 20s

Thinking back over your life, draw a time-line of the events where you observed sexism where it was either intentional or unintentional. (Interviewee was later asked to list events where he colluded with sexism. All events were then listed together on a life-line and they were categorized as either unintentional or intentional. The events where he colluded with sexism were listed as such.)

Age	Categorization	Situation Description
10 years old	Intentional	Girls were always picked last for sports
14 years old	Unintentional	In shop class, no one ever thought the girls could do as well as the boys
14 years old	Intentional	Guys couldn't sew so sewing was taken out as a requirement for Home Ec
16 years old (incident added in subsequent phone call)	Intentional	I applied to work at ________ but I wasn't hired because the guy who ran it was a dirty old man and only hired young cute girls so he could look at them.
up to 18 years old	Colluded	I grew up in a sexist, racist, and homophobic environment and I just did everything that I was taught
18 years old	Intentional	I was fired because I wasn't a woman. I guess I was fired partly because I wasn't a woman and partly because I was gay.
22 (the other day)	Unintentional	I found out that my grandmother thinks women are below men and shouldn't have certain jobs.

Event Selected to Pursue Further: 20 years old... "When I came out to my fraternity, everyone pulled away from me."

What happened in this situation?

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.
4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.
4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.
4.4. Everyone seemed to pull away from me.
4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.
4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to being my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.
4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.
4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.
4.9. I moved out and left the university.

At this moment:
4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.1.A. What did it matter if I was gay?
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.1.B. What would change if they knew I was gay?
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.1.C. I knew I had to tell them and come clean?
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.1.D. I didn't want to lose my friends and my brothers.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.1.E. I had C___ as a support person.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.1.F. I would have made everyone appreciative and accepting of
me.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.2.A. Would anything be the same again?
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.2.B. None really at this point.... most of them came later when I got their reaction.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.2.C. I thought that if I could have done it all over again, I would not have kept my secret and I would have told everyone before I pledged.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.2.D. I was really afraid of everyone's reaction.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.2.E. No.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.2.F. I would have made everyone realize that I was still _____ [referring to his own nickname] and nothing needed to change.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.3.A. Why was anything different?
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.3.B. Absolutely heartbroken... I cried right there.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.3.C. I thought it was bullshit.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.3.D. The whole thing was a barrier. How could I believe in a brotherhood that won't accept me for who I am?
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.3.E. No... not really.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.3.F. Like I said earlier, I would have made everyone accept me for who I was an know that I was still the same [person].

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.4.A. I just didn't understand why everyone thought I was different.
4.4.B. I wasn't any different, so why were they treating me differently?
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.4.C. I was heartbroken.
4.4.D. I wanted things to be the way they were when I wasn't me.
4.4.E. Rejected.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.4.F. I could really see how hatred and homophobia could be the acid that dissolves the bonds of brotherhood.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.4.G. My brother's perceptions about my sexual identity. I knew it wasn't me or my sexuality... it was them and how they dealt with it.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.4.H. I had my first taste of homophobia that was directed at me and I learned from the experience so I could know how to deal with it later.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.4.I. I know that I wouldn't have changed my sexuality, but I would have made everything go back to the way it was when I was "playing straight."

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.5.A. What made them think they had the right to restrict me? I was like any other brother.
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.5.B. I felt discriminated against... kinda singled out.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.5.C. I knew it was wrong.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.5.D. Once again, I think the biggest barrier was their perceptions about my sexual identity.
4.5.E. They perceived that everything was about sex and it really wasn't.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.5.F. No. Nothing really helped here. It was really fucked up, so how could it help?
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.5.G. Make them understand that I was no different no than I
was before I told them about my sexual identity.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.6.A. No.
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.6.B. I knew that was the right thing.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.6.C. Standing up to them would be the only way that I could maintain any semblance of my personal life.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.6.D. No.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.6.E. This was like my first stoic stance against homophobia and it helped me to later stand up to people in other homophobic situations.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.6.F. I think that was a situation where I DID waive a magic wand because everyone seemed to back down a little after that.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.7.A. Why don't they see me for who I am?
4.7.B. Why was everything changing when I wasn't?
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.7.C. Ostracized was the main feeling. I think I also felt everything that I felt before, but now, I really began to feel ostracized.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.7.D. I knew that this was the beginning of the end of my membership with this chapter of ______.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.7.E. I loved the institution of the fraternity so much that it wasn't something that I could ignore.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.7.F. The other people who I embraced by coming out helped me as my friends in the fraternity turned against me. Well, I wouldn't really say they turned against me, they just followed what was going on in the chapter.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.7.G. I don't really think I would have waved a magic wand. I think that what happened happened for a reason and I don't know that I would have changed that.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.8.A. Nothing new.
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.8.B. Numb at this point.
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.8.C. Nothing new.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.8.D. The members themselves were the barrier.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.8.E. Nothing really helped.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.8.F. I would have gotten the hell out of there before the end
of the quarter.

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.9.A. No, not really. Everything was clear that I needed to leave and start again, so I didn't really have any questions.
Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.9.B. Relief.
4.9.C. Opportunity
Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.9.D. Homophobia can destroy someone's life if you don't know how to deal with it.
Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.9.E. No. I think that by moving away, I relieved myself of one of the biggest barriers in my life.
Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.9.F. Leaving
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.9.G. Yeah, think I would have waived the wand now. I definitely would have lived in a different place that was more accepting of people of different walks of life and sexual
preferences, and all other differences.

For each element:

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.1.A. What did it matter if I was gay?

What led to this?

*I don't know... I guess I was just trying to think through how things would change if I told them.
*I guess I also wanted to know how much would stay the same.
*If a few small things changed and the major stuff just stayed the same, I guess it didn't matter.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Not really. For a fag, I'm pretty butch and no one really every questioned who I was.

Did it connect to history?

*Well, shit, I don't know about history, but I guess it just shows a trend that people will root out stuff they want to know... it's kinda like the newspaper... if there isn't a story, they'll make one up any way.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Oh yeah, it connects to society. Why do you think gay teachers have such a hard time?
*It connects really well to homophobia in society and how it can destroy the lives of the people who it works against.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Hindered -> It scared the shit out of me. I had to wonder
whether or not I was going to lose the people who I thought
were my best friends.

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.1.B. What would change if they knew I was gay?

What led to this?

*I loved my fraternity and I wanted everything to stay the same.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Well, when I told my parents, it wasn't as tragic as I thought it would have been and they pretty much told me that while they didn't agree with what I was doing, they still loved me. What they really meant to say is that they didn't approve of who I was, but they still loved me. Do you see the difference?

Did it connect to history?

*I don't really think so. There haven't been any really big people who have come out that I can look at and say "yeah, I can totally identify with you, dude."

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Same as before... it shows how it isn't your sexual identity that can destroy your life, or at least change it, but its people's homophobia and ignorance about you and
your sexual identity.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Like I said before, it pretty much just sucked because I was wondering if my friends, my fucking brothers, would change the way they treated me because I was gay. I mean, that wasn't a walk in the park... I couldn't sleep the night before I knew I was going to tell everyone, I was sweating when I told them and shaking... it just sucked all the way around. It sucked two dicks, that's how bad it was.

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.1.C. I knew I had to tell them and come clean?

What led to this?

*Well, I had dated J___ for two years, like I told you. But, I met someone very special... C___. He was really politically active on campus and I was really attracted to him. And I guess it was the pride that he instilled in me about myself that made me want to come out and be with my own people.
*I just came to the point where I realized that I was me and I wasn't going to change so I might as well let everyone know who the hell I was.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, the same reasons were why I came out to my parents.

Did it connect to history?

*I'm sure it does, but I don't have a butt-load of really good examples to give you. I mean, there have to be tons of people who just came to a point where they looked themselves in the mirror and decided that they didn't like looking at a lie, so they came out of the closet.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well, not really at this point. When you ask me about the other stuff, I'll have some really groovy shit to tell you.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Yeah, it totally helped. Imagine this. Imagine that your entire body is dipped into cement. You can't breath, no one can see who you are, you're just miserable. That's what being in the closet was like. Coming out was like just immediately shedding that outer layer that wasn't even me, wasn't anything like me.

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.1.D. I didn't want to lose my friends and my brothers.

What led to this?

*God, I had been with these guys for three years.One of the reasons I joined the fraternity was for a support structure, and I had come to really rely on the guys as the main support in my life. The fraternity was the main reasons why I was still at the university. That whole fucking school sucked.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I had the same fear when I came out to my parents... I didn't want to lose them.

Did it connect to history?

*Well, it's like I said before, I don't have any specific examples, but I am sure everyone who comes out to their parents, their friends, their fraternity, or whatever, they are scared shitless that they are going to lose everyone.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well yeah, I guess. See, I think everyone needs a group or a support or something that just keeps them going when life sucks and you become deathly afraid of anything that might take that away from you.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I knew that questions was coming. You think about it. It fucking sucked that I was worried about losing the people who were my support structure.

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.1.E. I had C___ as a support person.

What led to this?

*Well, a lesbian friend of mine asked me to this gay, lesbian, bisexual dance that was held every two weeks at the university as a fund-raiser. I was introduced to C___ there and I just about melted. I was so attracted to him, but there was nothing I could do because I was the straight frat boy who was supposedly being very fashionable and hip by showing up with my lesbian friend. Later that night, a whole bunch of people went to after-hours and I saw him there. We started talking about a whole bunch of things and the subject of the internet came up. He told me that that was pretty much what his major was and what his life was. He asked me if I wanted to go back to his place and have a drink. Me, being the naive guy then, I said sure. I had no idea that that was a pick-up line. But you know, I'm not sure that I wouldn't have gone even if I knew it was. But anyway, we kinda fooled around a little... well, a whole lot. Since then, we started dating and my whole life started to revolve around C___.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Not really because C___ was something brand new.
*He was the first person I fell in love with and I didn't even realize it.

Did it connect to history?

*C___ started to make me understand the -ism stuff <<I have had previous conversations with R___ about the -isms -- racism, sexism, etc., and this is just an understood colloquialism between the two of us.>>
*I had formed some ideas about stuff and it was just kinda a mixture of stuff floating around in my head and C___ kinda was the concrete that put everything together... he gave me a lot of historical contexts of oppression and rising above oppression that made me really start to grow.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Can we come back to that. I can give you some deep shit about that if you give me a minute to think.
*O.K. I was the weak, less-willed of the two of us. I would totally rely on him for everything. Once he started to rub off on me and I started to get a backbone, the relationship started to break down.
*If you think about it, this is the same thing that happens in traditional male-female relationships. When the female is totally reliant on the male, the relationship is good. The man totally directs the relationship and that is good. When the woman develops a will, status, power, prestige, or anything else that cuts down her dependence on the man, the relationship breaks down.
*Oh... here's another one. Look at any kind of societal conflict friction. It usually develops when one group becomes less dependent on another and attempts to break off the relationship. Hell, that's how the United States became who we are.How's that for some deep shit?

Did it help or hinder? How?

*C___ did nothing but ever help me. He was my transition [from] straight, conservative, right-wing thinking to the real world.
*He was my bridge.

4.1. There had been rumors that I was gay.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.1.F. I would have made everyone appreciative and accepting of me.

What led to this?
*I just wanted to be plain [me] and I guess that would have been the thing that I would have wanted.
Did it connect to your life or past experiences?
*Well, not really, because I was just really shedding the shell that everyone had always thought I was. I never really had any other reason not to be accepted because I conformed to what everyone wanted me to be.
Did it connect to history?
*You know, I'm really trying to search my brain about someone who has come out who was accepted, but you know, I can't even think of anyone in the popular media who has come out and either not been accepted or accepted. I can't think of anyone. You know, I could use E______ as an example, but that's so cliché, I think it'll make me puke so, let's just leave that dyke out of this interview.
Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?
*I think it shows the need of almost everyone to identify with someone.
*I wanted to be accepted, and these are the people who I wanted to accept me.
Did it help or hinder? How?
*It would have helped a whole hell of a lot.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.2.A. Would anything be the same again?

What led to this?

*I just dropped the bomb and shook everyone up.
*Like I told you, I just wanted everything to be the same.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Well, when I told my parents, I guess I told you that they weren't as freaked out as I thought they would be and things really didn't change a whole lot, and I guess I was really hoping for the same type of reaction.

Did it connect to history?

*Yeah, you know, the more I think about it, there was this guy who I know was a fraternity at university, and he came out to his chapter. That was a really big deal because that was like alpha chapter for them. He was pretty smart, because their nationals is right around the corner from them, so he just popped in the national office and told them what he was going to do and asked for their support. I guess they sent a guy from nationals over to the office to tell everyone that they COULDN'T treat him any differently. But you know, I wonder how warmly he would have been received if he wouldn't have told his nationals first. Damn he was smart.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I don't think I can find anything new. I'll have to think about that some more.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I guess it didn't do either. It just kinda grated at my nerves.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?

4.2.B. None really at this point.... most of them came later when I got their reaction.

Did not triangulate at this point.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts?
What were they?

4.2.C. I thought that if I could have done it all over again, I would not have kept my secret and I would have told everyone before I pledged.

What led to this?

*If I just would have told them, I wouldn't have been in this fucked up situation.
*Now, from looking back on the situation, I might have waited until I pledged and told them.
*I don't know... I just would have told them sooner so I wouldn't have been so devastated to loose everything once I told them.
*Then again, maybe if I would have told them, and they would have freaked out like they did, I could have depledged and joined another fraternity that would have been more accepting of my sexual identity, not that I know such a thing existed at university at the time or even now.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Well, I guess I had a lot of "Well if only I could be..." reflections where I wish I could have been straight, or I wish I would have told this person, or not told that one, or better yet, hit on that guy because he was cute, you know whatever... I just would have been more honest.

Did it connect to history?

*I don't know.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I don't know, but I bet there are a whole hell of a lot of people in the popular media, or just in the spotlight in general, who would have wished that they would have been more honest about their sexual identity.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Well, it just nagged... hindsight is 20/20.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?

4.2.D. I was really afraid of everyone's reaction.

What led to this?

*I guess one of the things that I haven't mentioned yet was that I was really powerful in the chapter. Like, when A__ talked, people listened, and that wasn't something that I wanted to loose.
*I had worked really hard for everything to be the way they were, and I didn't want anything to change that either.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, I was really afraid of the gloom and doom I was going to get from my parents.
*When I grew up, it just wasn't accepted to go outside the norm.
*I was raised to think and I did until I started to develop my identity, the same way that everyone brainwashed me to think

Did it connect to history?

*Any cover-up throughout history could be linked to this.
*I mean, look at the whole Roswell thing. No one really knows what went on there, partly I think because the people with the information and the power to disperse the information are afraid of two things: 1) How the people will handle the information and 2) How the people will feel when they find out they have been lied to for so many years.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Yeah, like what I just said... those people who are keeping all the secrets have the ability to do so, but I didn't really have the power to orchestrate such an elaborate cover-up. Nor do I think I would have wanted to.
*So even though it connects, it's not really something that I would have wanted to connect in my life or in this chapter of the "Reader's Digest version of [R said his own name]".

Did it help or hinder? How?

It sure as hell didn't help. Can you just imagine wondering about how everyone would react if you told them
something about you that your fraternity didn't know? I mean tell them something freaked out like you're really a woman... something like that is kinda on the same caliber of what I did. But then again, your house isn't all that uptight about shit like this.

4.2. I went to the chapter and told them that I was.
If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?

4.2.F. I would have made everyone realize that I was still ___ << referring to his own nickname] >> and nothing needed to change.

What led to this?

*Well, at that point the biggest thing in my mind was that I wanted everything to stay the same. And in my mind, everything really was, I just shared a little bit more of my world with the people around me.
*And like I said, I needed a support structure and I had a really good one that I didn't want to lose.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Like I said, I probably wished the same thing when I told my parents, but you know, they were a lot easier on me that I thought the would be.

Did it connect to history?

*Not that I can see, but it might somewhere along the line.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*O.K. This is really abstract, well maybe not. Do you remember when they brought out the new Coke and they marketed as the new and improved, well that is kinda what I feel like. I thought I was offering them a better product... like I wasn't being a fake me, I was just being the real [me] that they should have been getting all along. But like they did with the New Coke, they wanted their beloved Coke Classic back, and people were pissed until they got what they wanted.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It would have helped a whole lot because I would have been able to just pick up where everything left off before I told them and live my life like nothing ever changed. But that didn't happened, so everything pretty much sucked.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?

4.3.A. Why was anything different?

What led to this?

*I didn't understand why everyone thought they needed to vote on anything.
*I didn't understand what their big reason was for why I shouldn't stay as the pledge ed.
*To be totally honest, and somewhat cynical, I think it was a vote to see if they had enough balls to let a fag train the new members.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*No, I hadn't really had to deal with anything like this before.

Did it connect to history?

*No, I can't really think of anything new.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well, like I told you, it just shows how homophobia can destroy so many things. All the -isms and -obias in the world do nothing but hurt people. And it's not the everyday shithead out on the street who is doing it, it's an entire culture who is to blame, AND the people who taught that culture to hate.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Same as before... it hurt a whole lot to be going through this whole thing, and asking those questions really didn't do a whole lot of anything. Having those questions answered, though, would have done me a whole lot of good at the time, ya know.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.3.C. Absolutely heartbroken... I cried right there.

What led to this?

*I had worked so hard for that fraternity.
*When I joined as a pledge, there were some areas of the fraternity that really needed improvement. As soon as I was initiated, well, actually kinda before, I started working on making things better. After I had made some changes, we actually won some awards from our nationals.
That was the kinda shit that everyone knew me for.
*They knew me as A__, the guy who worked his ass off for the fraternity, not the fag in room 26.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I remember this one time, when my father... my father was extremely domineering... he was a pain in the ass... when he told me when I was a little kid that I would never be able to be an architect because I wasn't smart enough. I had gotten like a C or something stupid like that in 3rd grade in math and he just ripped into me. I just cried like a baby, and he told me that crying wouldn't get me anywhere either. He was a real cock sucker, but I love my step dad, he's the one I told you about the other day.

Did it connect to history?

*I think there are probably a lot of instances where people reveal something about themselves to people, not because they have to, but because they want to be honest with the people they love, and rather than being reassured, nurtured, and all kinds of other cozy bullshit like that, they are just torn apart, ostracized, and treated like shit. Wow, I sounded angst-ridden there <<R then breaks into song to the tune of "Teen Angst" by Cracker>>

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

Same as before.

Did it help or hinder? How?

You know how they say, "Just cry it out."? Well the shit didn't help me. I don't think that there was very much of anything that would have helped me at that point.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.3.C. I thought it was bullshit.

What led to this?

*I knew damn well that I was just as good as anyone else, if not better to be in charge of the pledges.
*I knew that I was still me and nothing had changed except that everyone knew I was gay, and that was no real reason to think that I couldn't do my job.
*I had just put through one of the best pledge classes the fraternity had had in a long time, and I thought that
should just stand for itself that I was doing a good job in everything that I was doing.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*My grandfather owns a car dealership and will only hire like white men. For some reasons, this one woman came in there and practically demanded that he hire her. She threatened to sue, so he caved. I know that they did everything they possible could to get rid of her. I don't know what the rest of her deal is, but I don't think that she worked there very long.

Did it connect to history?

*I think you can look at any time that person has been judged or better yet punished because of something that he couldn't control, you can see how this whole thing ties in.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Same as before.
*<<Added later>> I wish there was someone who I could look up to who did stand up to the bullshit and say to everyone that judging people based on their sexuality is wrong, but I don't have anyone who I can do that for.
*<<Also added later>> I know that there are people who have been out there marching for civil rights for years, but there really isn't anyone that I can connect with.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think it overall hindered, but I think it helped me to be secure about the fact that I knew what was going on was wrong. Like, I didn't just agree with them and lay down and say, "Sure if you want to throw me out of the chapter because I'm queer, go right ahead."

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.3.D. The whole thing was a barrier. How could I believe in a brotherhood that won't accept me for
who I am?

What led to this?

*Well, I think they were taking a vote as to whether or not they could trust me in the house or how I would affect the image of the house, but I really think that for me, it was a vote as to whether or not I could trust them or count on them.
*Did it connect to your life or past experiences?
*Once again, I have never really been put in a situation where my continued presence somewhere was being voted upon.

Did it connect to history?

*I think it connects to like when they vote to censure members of the senate or congress, you know. They half-ass want to do it to make a point, but I think they draw the line somewhere because they are being so damn hypocritical when they are doing it that they'll all look like fuck-ups if they go through with it.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

I guess you can just look at the power of the people. I mean, they did have the power to remove me from my office and kick me out of the fraternity, whether or not I thought that right wasn't the issue. I think there have to be other areas in society, like you know when a board of directors votes whether to keep a CEO or not, just that I wasn't the CEO, I was the fag in room 26 who was teaching the pledged to be fags like me, or at least that's probably what they thought.

Did it help or hinder? How?

You know, at this point, I just think everything sucked. Nothing really and truly helped until I got the hell out of there. Well, a few beers every now and then helped too, but that's not what we're talking about.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.3.E. No... not really.

Did not triangulate.

4.3. The chapter took an opinion vote to determine whether or not I should keep my position as pledge ed and also whether or not I should leave the chapter.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.3.F. Like I said earlier, I would have made everyone accept me for who I was an know that I was still the same [R said his nickname].

What led to this?

*Same as before... I just wanted everything to be the same.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*No, not really.

Did it connect to history?

*Same.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Same

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It would have helped because no one would have questioned anything about me. I would have just been the same person
I always was. <<R___ seemed overly agitated that this question was asked...>>

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?

4.4.A. I just didn't understand why everyone thought I was different.

What led to this?

*Well, it was like this: Everyone seemed like they converted to being Muslims. They covered themselves up to their wrists and ankles... it wasn't like a fraternity house anymore. People would just go to the john in the middle of the night in their boxers, but they just didn't do stuff like that any more.
*I don't know why everyone thought I was attracted to them. I'm like "Oh, don't give yourself that much credit, you fat
disgusting slob."

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Well, in my short time of being out, it was really weird because someone else had already asked me if I was interested in them. I just looked at him and asked him why if women weren't interested in his ugly ass why he thought men would be. I guess I was feeling a little bit confrontational at the time.

Did it connect to history?

*Since I don't have anyone to base it on, I don't really know, but I have seen it on movies where a guy tells someone that he is guy and they do the standard scene, ya know... "You don't..." "You're not.." "You know... me..." And the guy just goes... no.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Same as before. Homophobia is everywhere and it infects people who never really thought they would be touched by it. It spreads like... crabs or something.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Hindered -> Every time I thought about it I got madder and there really wasn't anything that helped, like I said earlier.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.4.B. I wasn't any different, so why were they treating me differently?

What led to this?

*I think it was because the perception of my motives changed.
*Everyone thought that everything I did or everything they did and I saw them do had to do with sex and it just wasn't.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*After thinking about it a little, this one time when I was in high school, we were doing this debate on abortion in my English class and I really lashed out at this one girl. After that whole thing, she never really treated me the same, even though we had been friends before.

Did it connect to history?

*God, it must. Either I am a freak, or this shit has happened to other people, and I know I am a lot more normal than people would like to think I am... so I know I am not alone.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think it just shows how society can set up these norms of what they want everyone to be and how they want everyone to behave. And if someone doesn't conform to those standards, they are just a blemish on the face of society. That's the kinda shit that wakes me in the middle of the night.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It hurt a whole lot because I was loosing the people who I cared about so much.
But you know, I guess it helped that I found out all of these things rather than living in a disillusioned environment for such a long time.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.4.C. I was heartbroken.

What led to this?

*I just felt like everything I had worked for had gone down the drain.
*The thing that probably hurt the most was that I still loved the fraternity... I love everything about why I joined and that made everything so hard for me to take.
*I guess I knew in my head that things could be really difficult after I came out, but I really was hoping that it wouldn't be that big of a deal and I could go on with my life.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I don't think so, because I have never felt as hurt than I did during this whole situation. I couldn't even think of anything that could hurt more. There is no way I even want this to connect to anything in my life.

Did it connect to history?

*You know, I've been working really hard to answer this question for the last couple of times, and I haven't been able to think of anything from the gay world because it hasn't been publicized that much in the media.
*One thing that connects is when I was a little kid, one of the guys I played with was adopted and I guess it had been a big secret in the booming metropolis of N________. I guess one of the other kids' parents told him that our other friend was adopted and his parents weren't his natural parents. When we were out messing around in the woods behind my house, we got in this fight about who
should be able to be the ruler and the other kid said that my friend (the adopted one) shouldn't because he didn't even have real parents. And I can remember that kid being so confused and when he got home, he just fell apart. I think we were about 13 at the time. He was just devastated by the whole thing and I don't think he really ever treated his family the same ever since... partly because he knew they weren't his natural parents, but also because he was lied to for his entire life.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*No, not really in any way that I haven't told you about yet.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It really hurt because I knew that I could never get any of what I was loosing back.
*Ten years down the road, if I ever decide to go back for an alumni reunion, not like I would, but if I did, I am not sure I would ever be treated the same.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.4.D. I wanted things to be the way they were when I wasn't me.

What led to this?

*Things were great when I wasn't me and when I started living my life the way I really was, everything crumbled.
*I liked the benefit of my friends and people's support when I was playing "straight guy" and I hated the way I was treated when I was just playing [me].

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*This whole thing was really new to me, so it didn't really connect to anything I had personally gone through. I do remember my aunt having to struggle to establish herself in the business world. After she did it though, everyone kinda thought she was a hardass and no one could mess with her, but she was really the same kind person she always was.

Did it connect to history?

*I don't know.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*O.K. Look at the thing with my aunt. That just shows the beauty of children. When I was a kid, I just treated her like Aunt _____... the person I had always known. I didn't know what she did in the corporate board room just like most children wouldn't understand what I do in my bedroom, not that being gay is all about sex, but it fits my example pretty well... but anyway, a kid wouldn't know to treat Aunt _____ or me differently because they haven't been taught to hate. Once society teaches them to be afraid of differences and to hate, you get into situations like mine where everything changes because I become the person they fear.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*You know, this is one of the really hurtful things that I think made me stronger.
*I think that I realized at this point that anything could happen to me and I could either sit around and whine about it or do something to make the situation better. You know that one commercial with the tele-evangelist who says "Don't just sit there... do something!" Well, this made me get off my ass and do something. I didn't sit around and feel sorry for myself because my life changed... I changed it more... I met new friends, became active in the gay community, and tried to help as many other people in fraternities deal with their sexuality.
*To this day, I will still argue that even though this was one of the toughest things I ever had to do, it made me stronger... I'm not a scarred person, I'm empowered. I may still be a little pissed, though.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.4.E. Rejected.

What led to this?

*Being pushed away by everyone.
*I was a person who was completely accepting into the fraternity... I was a person everyone looked up to, I carried a lot of weight in the chapter, and all of a sudden, it was like I was a fucking leper.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I mean, this was like a totally new game for me. I had worked hard all my life so that I could fit in, so there wasn't a whole lot of past experiences where I didn't fit in or I was rejected because of who I was or what I did.
*N________ was not a very diverse place, so I just did everything I could so I wouldn't go against the grain.

Did it connect to history?

*I know there are hundreds of times when people are rejected by those who they feel are their own people.
*You could look all the way back to biblical times and the rejection of Jesus and his teachings for connections to history, but I don't really know if you can link Jesus to me telling everyone I was a queer... you're gonna have to make the call on that one.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well, I think this microcosm of what I was going through was just a reflection of what could occur in the larger contexts of society.
*I know that I wasn't the only person who was going through rejection from a peer group or organization because I revealed something about my life that they didn't previously know.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Like I just said, the whole rejection led me to seek other avenues of support, so even though this hurt emotionally, it made me grow a whole lot.
*On a side note, I can't tell you how much of a hot commodity I was once people found out I was an OUT and GAY FRAT BOY. It was like I was some kind of a novelty and that attention helped a little to replace some of the things I lost from my fraternity.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.4.F. I could really see how hatred and homophobia could be the acid that dissolves the bonds of brotherhood.

What led to this?

*Looking at my life led to this.
*Hatred and homophobia had destroyed the bonds that our ritual says is "undeniable, irrevocable, and precious to all those enveloped by it." I'll probably burn in hell for telling you our secrets!

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Not necessarily brotherhood, but I know that my aunts and my grandmother get into battles with each other because my grandmother things that women should work in the home with the children and not have their own career. I really think she has a mild hatred for her children who have done
probably what she wishes she would have done.

Did it connect to history?

*O.K. This one I have a whole lot of examples for... are you ready:
*Martin Luther King was shot because of racism.
*The whole Rodney King uprising was linked to racism.
*The O.J. Trial... racism again.
*Look at how all of these things have divided us as a nation. I think there is a big connection there.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well, I know the hatred connects to society, but I also know that education about avoiding hatred also connects to society.
*I know that society has both the power to hate and the power to understand and appreciate. What I don't know is how society comes to the conclusions as to which populations will be accepted and which will be persecuted. Well, I think I know, but that could make a whole another interview and I don't know if I could take it... I'm starting to get bed sores from sitting so long while we do this one as it is.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*The actual hatred and homophobia hindered, but my understanding of it helped.
*I don't know what's gotten into me, but I'm starting to look back on these awful experiences and find out that I have been helped by some of these.
*This is way freaky... It's like this is fag therapy or something... will I have to write you a check for $1000 when we're done?

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.4.G. My brother's perceptions about my sexual identity. I knew it wasn't me or my sexuality... it was them and how they dealt with it.

What led to this?

*Well, like I told you, they perceived that our relationship now had some sexual element to it, which it totally didn't.
*I guess you could also look at it as kinda like finger pointing... you know, it's not my fault, it's theirs, but I swear to you, nothing, NOTHING AT ALL about what I did or how I acted changed.
*While I can understand that some gay men need to act their fantasies out by dressing like women or acting feminine, that's nothing like me or anything that I was interested in. So, I fit the mold of the stereotypical fraternity man, and I know it is how they dealt with the whole thing in their head, and not who I really was.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Well, I had other experiences, where people's acceptance of me wasn't based upon who I was but who they thought I was.
*I know that just being a member of a fraternity, everyone thought I was going to be a beer-drinking, womanizing, idiot, but when I opened my mouth and spoke I shocked
everyone.
*The thing about this that's different from that experience, though is that when I spoke and they realized that I was intelligent and nothing like what they thought I was, the people I was dealing with moved on with their lives and I got a different tag then.

Did it connect to history?

*Here's a recent one... you know how everyone perceived Ronald Reagan as a great president... well, he wasn't. He was senile, got the country way into debt with defense spending, and a whole bunch of other shit like that. The people didn't see him for what he was and what he was doing, but they saw the movie star that they loved. That's the opposite of what was going on with me, but I think it connects.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It goes right back to the -isms and -obias that society has and wields with such power. If it weren't for the labels society dishes out, I don't think there would be a single person in the closet.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think this hurt just as much as anything.
*We were really a no-bullshit fraternity... I mean people didn't want to hear about what you were going to do, they wanted to know what was being done... we didn't take anything for granted and that is what I was used to. It hurt so much when they took me and my life for granted.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.4.H. I had my first taste of homophobia that was directed at me and I learned from the experience so I could know how to deal with it later.

What led to this?

*Well, I knew that this wouldn't be the first time.
*C___ taught me that there would be obstacles everywhere you go.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Like I told you about growing up, I didn't live in a very open environment. It wasn't O.K. to be different, and I could see how people were looked down upon because they were.
*I don't know so much if it was racism and homophobia so much as it was like social class or just doing things not really accepted by the people in our town.

Did it connect to history?

*I think the best connection I can make to it is that if there would have been someone who when the first person was treated differently based on whatever characteristic, there was a person who stood up and said no and refused to let it happen. That would be the best connection.
*I can't say that that would eliminate all the -isms and -obias, but I think it would have been neat to see.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Doesn't everything. I mean, Jesus, I was experiencing a good dose of homophobia from my own "sub-group".... that was a good sociology term I thought I'd use... so I know that within general society things would be worse.
*You know, now that I said that, I don't know if that is true. There probably would be more acceptance in general society, well, I know there is because if everybody treated me the same way they did, I don't know where I would be right now.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It hurt like hell, but like I started realizing, it helped me be stronger for the next time I met face to face with homophobia and that made me stronger for the next time and so on.

4.4 Everyone seemed to pull away from me.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.4.I. I know that I wouldn't have changed my sexuality, but I would have made everything go back to the way everything back to the way it was when I was "playing straight."

What led to this?

*At first, I wished I wasn't different, but through it all, I started to realize that it was O.K. for me to different, but it wasn't O.K. for people not to appreciate that you are different.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, there had been a couple of times that I wished that after saying something or doing something that hurt people that I loved or at least cared about, I didn't want to change what I said because I meant it, but I did want to change the fact that I hurt someone. In this situation, thought, it's not that I hurt anyone, but I changed them and their perceptions of me. That's what I would have changed.

Did it connect to history?

*This is kinda abstract, and I hope I don't offend you, but look at the dropping of the atomic bomb. We as a nation are very sorry about the repercussions that occurred from dropping the bomb and killing, wounding, and maiming all those people and letting them die, but at the same time, we didn't see any other way to end the war so we didn't lose a whole bunch more of American lives. We're sorry about the hell it caused, but we're not sorry we did it.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think what I just said connects to power in society in itself. Is it O.K. to just leave that.
Did it help or hinder? How?At this point, I didn't really care whether it helped or hindered, I just wanted it to be over. It probably would have helped a whole lot though.
*But you know, after everything that I went through at that point, I am not sure that if I would have been able to change everything back to the way it was before that I would have been able to accept that, knowing how everyone really felt. That's not something you get over like someone borrowing something without asking and you just tell them not to do it again... this is a pretty deep hurt.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.5.A. What made them think they had the right to restrict me? I was like any other brother.

What led to this?

*We were all initiated into the same brotherhood and I didn't see anything in our ritual or bylaws that said they could treat the others differently.
*I wanted them to live by what they said.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Now that I look back on when I was a right-wing, closed-minded thinker, I can see how I tried to impose some of my views on others... you know like with issues like euthanasia, abortion, and other controversial stuff where you could be a ranging conservative.

Did it connect to history?

*McCarthyism.. another damn -ism is a great example of how we treated people who were essentially the same as us very differently when we didn't necessarily have the right to.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think the McCarthyism thing definitely connects to society and history... All that shit never would have happened if there wasn't the ability to do it. Someone gave the people in charge the right to terrorize all those people and never bothered to seriously question whether it was right or wrong. I could be misinterpreting what I learned in history class, but I think this is a huge example of the ability of society to treat different populations differently.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*This was probably one of the most hurtful things because it felt like not only didn't they accept me, but they wanted to change me or just restrict me from being who I was. It wasn't like I was having sex in the hallways or anything like that, hell... very rarely brought anyone back to the house because of the way everything was... if I didn't want to be in that environment, why would someone else?

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.5.B. I felt discriminated against... kinda singled out.

What led to this?

*Well, I was the only one who was out. I know there was another guy who was gay... actually, he came out to me and we were good friends for a while then he started fucking around and disrespecting my space and we kinda moved a part. But any way, I was singled out because while there were more than just me who was gay... and I don't think I was the only one who was gay... I was the only one brave enough to say it and talk about it.
*When you are the only one and you are treated differently (in a bad way) it's hard not to feel discriminated against.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Remember when I told you about the woman who worked for my grandfather... this is just like that situation. She was the only one and she was treated differently from everyone else.
*Also, I told you about how we have been treated differently as fraternity guys... especially when you are like the only person working on a group project in a class... everyone thinks that you are going to be the slacker and turn in shitty work, and they usually treat you a little differently too.

Did it connect to history?

*This is another culture example, but look at Hitler's extermination of the Jews in Germany. He singled out a race of people and a kind of people... those that were different from a very specific ideal, and he attempted to eliminate all those that were different.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It does and it's scary that it does, because a society should be based on acceptance and not hatred. I think the examples of Hitler and McCarthy show how an entire society can be coerced to believe or at go along with a certain plan or idea.

Did it help or hinder? How?

It did nothing but hurt because I felt trapped in my own home. The fraternity for me wasn't just a place to live, it was a home and that's I guess why I took a lot of the stuff pretty hard.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.5.C. I knew it was wrong.

What led to this?

*When I was about eighteen and I finally developed not only my sexual identity, but my ideas about equality, I developed a sense of what is right and what was wrong.
*I knew that discrimination of this kind was really wrong.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I guess I first began to questions the -isms when I took a sociology class in high school. I wanted to know why -isms existed.
*After I formed these ideas, I started to realize that where I lived, there were no women or minorities in positions of power. Women never really did anything important... hell, the girl's basketball coach was even a woman.

Did it connect to history?

*Here's a contemporary example... the Gulf War is a great example of when the rights of a people were stood up for.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Well, I think it does. The Gulf War example that I gave can also connect to society. If you think about it... there was an entire people who were fighting for the rights of an entire other people who were not really related to them in any way. I know a lot of people will say that we were fighting for the almighty dollar because of the oil-rich land, but I still say that it's a good example.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think this one affected me both ways.
*It helped because I was able to say that I knew it was wrong instead of just saying O.K. about everything that was going on.
*It hurt because I knew it was wrong but I really had to admit that while I wanted to change the minds of everyone because I knew in every bone of my body that what was going on was wrong, I knew that there was very little if anything I could do to change those people's minds.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.5.D. Once again, I think the biggest barrier was their perceptions about my sexual identity.

What led to this?

*If they didn't perceive me any differently, they never would have come up with the brilliant idea to tell me who I could and who I couldn't bring up to the house.
*It wasn't like I threw open the closet door and immediately began seducing my brothers... I acted the same, talked the same, did the same things... the only thing that was different was how they looked at me.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*The whole thing about my Aunt _____ is something that I keep thinking about.
*We really treated her differently because after she broke through all of the bull-shit at her job and started kicking ass everyday, I think everyone thought she was a bitch and thought they had to treat her that way.

Did it connect to history?

*I watched this one thing on TV and they talked about how African Americans over the years have been targeted by police because they have been perceived as criminals. The thing that stuck with me is that if an affluent African American drove through certain neighborhoods that were considered poor, they were stopped because the cops thought they had stolen the car. That's kinda the way I feel...
you know just because some queers are like ass pirates, I'm being labeled the same as them

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Wow... I think I am breaking a record of linking these two questions together, but I really feel that the cop example shows how a person or a group in power can turn their perceptions into an unjust action.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*There's no way it could do anything other than hurt. I was being judged as a different person than I was. I guess it was bad enough that I was being judged at all.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.5.E. They perceived that everything was about sex and it really wasn't.

What led to this?

*I can think of one example that really sticks out that really made me think that my actions were perceived as all having to do with sex.
*At the house, we had this huge prison showers... there were two bathrooms on each floor... one on each wing, and I was in the shower one time, and I remember this guy, M____, stick his head into the shower to see who was in there. After he saw I was the only person in there, he ducked back
out. After a few minutes, I opened the curtain and asked him what he was afraid of. I told him that he didn't have anything to worry about, that I wouldn't attack him. He just said "I'm cool. I'll just wait until you're done."
*At that point, I just felt like some kind of a freak

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*The only time I can think where everything was perceived as having to do with sex was when we took health class in like 7th grade or something like that and after we talked about all the reproductive stuff.. you know - how the sperm meets the egg and shit like that... everybody would just throw a
word like vas deferens in or something freaky like that.

Did it connect to history?

*I can't think of anything off hand.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Yeah, this connects to society, because I don't think society can get off of its fixation about what goes on in a gay man's bedroom so they can deal with a gay man on a personal level.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It really hurt me because even though we had a whole bunch of good looking guys in the house, there was no fucking way I could even think about doing anything sexual with them. That would have been like incest for me or something. I just couldn't do it... they were my brothers.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.5.F. No. Nothing really helped here. It was really fucked up, so how could it help?

Did not triangulate.

4.5. They made restrictions on what I could do. They told me that I couldn't have male friends up to the house.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.5.G. Make them understand that I was no different no than I was before I told them about my sexual identity.

What led to this?

*All along, I knew that if anything was going to stay the same throughout this whole thing, it was going to be me.
*It took me 20 years to accept who I was, so I don't know why I would expect a group of 100 men to accept me overnight. I think the oh-so-powerful magic wand was probably the only thing that could have made them understand me better and hopefully accept me for who I really was.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I remember when I was a kid... I had my first homosexual experience when I was 15 and I just wanted to be able to talk about with everyone and do the normal stuff that all the other kids do... you know I couldn't really just say "Hey! I just banged Jeff from around the corner." I wanted for all that to be the normal thing and not the wrong thing. I was really repressed.

Did it connect to history?

*Yeah, I mean, I think I have said the same thing before.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It shows how a society can be hateful as a whole towards people.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It would have helped me to fell better, but it wouldn't have helped me as a person.
*I think the whole thing made me stronger, so overall, I guess everything helped in a sick, twisted way.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.6.A. No.

Did not triangulate.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.6.B. I knew that was the right thing.

What led to this?

*Like I said, about the age of eighteen, I developed a sense of equality, and this was one of the things that I thought about... I deserved to be treated like everyone else, no matter my sexuality.
*Also, I think that is part of what the fraternity meant to me... we were initiated into a bond that meant we not only loved each other, but loved and cherished what the fraternity stands for, and I can tell you that it does not stand for treating anyone unequally. You're gonna know more about [slang name for fraternity] than most [slang name for fatity members] do if I tell you any more secrets.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*You know, when that woman was hired by my grandfather, while I put up a tough front about it and agreed with everyone that she was just a bitch that was causing trouble, on the inside I was cheering my ass off for her.

Did it connect to history?

*I really wish there were more people in history and in the popular media who I could look at to say that they stood up to defend their sexuality, but there really aren't, and that's sad.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*You've heard that story about Rosa Parks. It's about how one person spoke one word and a nation of people listened. Well, the gist of it is this... when Rosa Parks was told to give up her seat so a white man could sit down, she said no. When she said no, the entire African American population of the south listened. The busses still ran, but the African Americans walked. One word said by one
woman caused a nation of people to respond. I may not be able to get a nation of homophobic fraternity men to hear my words, but at least I know that I took my stand and I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I challenged the process

Did it help or hinder? How?

*This helped a whole fucking lot. It's like everyone took notice that I wasn't going to just take everything. I mean, there were things like excluding me from get togethers and shit like that that I couldn't really work against, but this was something that I could definitely sink my teeth into and work to change.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.6.C. Standing up to them would be the only way that I could maintain any semblance of my personal life.

What led to this?

*I wanted to meet people and just have friends, but I guess they thought that all I wanted to do was turn my room into like an S&M dungeon or something.
*After C___ and I kinda broke up, I started dating this guy who wasn't out but had roommates. There were very few places where we could go and be private.
*<<Added Later>> Another reason I decided to stand up to them was because I was talking about the whole thing with some of my friends in the gay community and they immediately got this perception that I was being like abused or something in the fraternity house. Seriously, they thought that they were like fag bashing me or raping me in the shower or forcing me to give them blow jobs or something. I thought that their perceptual distortion was just as bad as what I was getting from the fraternity. I knew that I could change one, so I did, and I told them that I was going to bring whoever the hell I wanted back to the house.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

I had to stand up to my father a few times when I was a kid because he was such an oppressive ass biscuit. It was mostly over what he said I couldn't do but what I was going to do anyway. Did I say ass biscuit... Jesus.

Did it connect to history?

*You know, I realize that I am not an "oppressed" person in the sense of how people are being oppressed in the former Yugoslavia or in Rwanda or how people were oppressed in Nazi Germany, but I can somewhat identify with those people. Look at The Diary of Anne Frank. That poor family had no outlets because they were being stalked by their oppressors. That's kinda the same way I feel about them telling me I had to be holed up in my room alone... I had to stand up to it. I didn't have as much to lose as the Frank family.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I kinda answered that with the Rosa Parks thing. Every now and then, I have this glimmer of hope that a single voice can change the world.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think this helped anything in general, because when I did bring someone back to the house, I made a really big point of keeping my door open so people could see that we weren't like jumping each other's bones or something.
*I know it helped a little because people would stop by just out of fascination I think. It was like I was a circus animal and I brought a new freak friend home with me... but I was O.K. with that because it just showed that things were getting somewhat better... not acceptable, but better.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.6.D. No.

Did not triangulate.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.6.E. This was like my first stoic stance against homophobia and it helped me to later stand up to people in other homophobic situations.

What led to this?

*Part of it was the pride C___ had taught me to have for myself and the other part was just my onriness that I had built up over time.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I hadn't really taken a stance like this before. I mean I had stood up for stuff before, but this time, this was really at the core of what I... like me [R said his own name] stood for and I wasn't going to back down on this one and I think everyone knew it.

Did it connect to history?

*I keep going back to the Rosa Parks thing, but I think that says a whole lot about how important I think this whole situation was right there. She went to jail... I got to have friends in my room.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*There are so many people who are out there taking stances on issues.
*Every day, I see politicians who claim they represent me taking the side that most agitates me. This Defense of Marriage Act bullshit is a really good example of something where a community, or someone needs to take a huge assed stance against it, or at least the people who are trying to shovel this horse shit through congress.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Like I said, the actual things I said and did helped me to be more open about who I was.
*The situation in general just made me a stronger person. When I said my first stance, I really meant that was my first stance. I have made many since... you saw my picture in the newspaper when I was wearing my fraternity letters and I was covered with Pride stickers... oh they were pissed
about that one.

4.6. I told them that if they could have their female friends, then I was going to bring my male friends to the house whether they were gay or straight.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.6.F. I think that was a situation where I DID waive a magic wand because everyone seemed to back down a little after that.

What led to this?

*Well since I think I answered the question why I stood up to them, I think I should probably answer the question why they backed down. The answer is because I think that I had finally hit them where it hurt. Also think that it had been long enough that I had proven to them that I wasn't a raging gay man and that I wasn't going to do anything to make the fraternity look bad.
*While I had earned their trust on this issue, I still didn't feel good about the whole situation.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

No, not really.

Did it connect to history?

No way that I haven't said yet.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

I think it just shows the power of one person to do something really big. Some famous bitch wrote "Never underestimate the power of a small dedicated group of people to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that has." I think the old girl was on to something.

Did it help or hinder? How?

Yeah it helped to level the playing field a little bit and also, I think it gave the members of the house a chance to see me with members of my new community and to see that they were more like them than they ever thought.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.7.A. Why don't they see me for who I am?

What led to this?

*Even though all of this was going on, I still so much wanted to be a part of what was going on around me.
*I still felt everything that I felt before about the organization.
*At that point, I think I was asking this question a whole lot. It was like, my friends in the Gay community thought I was still living a lie because I was living in a fraternity house, and my friends in the fraternity house thought I was not one of them any more... I was so confused because I really was so much a part of both communities.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I think this is one of the things that fascinated me when I was growing up. I knew that I was different, and I knew that I had to way overcompensate for being different, so I made sure that I was ultra-whatever... you know whatever that wanted me to be, I was it to the extreme. And I really wonder why they never saw me for who I was.

Did it connect to history?

*I think I've pretty much said enough about that.
*<<Added later>> While this is just a short history, I think it connects back to where I grew up. People were never looked at as they really were, they were looked at as people wanted to see them. If I was supposed to be a crook, I was looked at as a crook. You know, to this day, that is still something that I do. And I know that it sucks, but it has been something I have done my whole life.
It really sucks.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Once again, society has the power to build these schemas about what they think the perfect person should be and when people don't live up to them, I think they cast them in the role of some awful villain being, instead of who they really are.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It hurt because I knew that I was just being disposed of like a dirty napkin. I wasn't as pure as I once was (not that I was ever pure), so they were getting rid of me by ignoring me.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.7.B. Why was everything changing when I wasn't?

What led to this?

*The situation had festered for some time, and I had come to the point where I almost completely accepted my sexuality. I knew that I was the same me that I was before and all I did was share this with the people who I trusted.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*When my parents divorced, it seems like I still held on to some of the things that my dad did long after he moved away. It took a long time for me to change the way I thought about things and the way I acted in certain instances because I really had to develop a new way of looking at things. My Stepdad is really nice, but it took a while before I could think of him as himself and not as my dad, because while everything about my life changed, I didn't really want to. Now that I look back on that, it was kinda stupid.

Did it connect to history?

*I think there is a huge connection to this and business. If you look at the Fortune 500 list from the 1980's, 80% of the companies that were on it cannot be found on the current list. It's all because they refused to change what they were doing to meet the needs of a constantly changing audience.
*I think the same thing happened to the dinosaurs... maybe that's why companies like Sears-Roebuck are being called dinosaurs... just a thought.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

Well, like I said, it is at society's whim that we prosper, and it should also be at society's whim that we change. I just think that I was finally accepting who I was and so busy looking at myself in a different way that I didn't have time to change in any way, which I think is probably good.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Now that I look back on everything, it really helped that I decided to stand my ground and be who I was instead of trying to conform to someone's image of who I should be, what I should do, and who I should love.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.7.C. Ostracized was the main feeling. I think I also felt everything that I felt before, but now, I really began to feel ostracized.

What led to this?

*I think I began to feel more resentment at this point.
*I think that they probably thought I was just going to throw open the closet door, walk out and announce myself, then promptly move out. Since I didn't, I think some people were made about that.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*When I was in 8th grade, there was this kid who was really fat all through like elementary school and our first year in middle school. He lost a whole lot of weight, and even though he looked like everyone else then, he was still treated like a second class person. I can see how he could have felt ostracized in that situation.

Did it connect to history?

*Not that I know of.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Society has been able to make all kinds of people feel ostracized. People who have babies out of wedlock, people who marry outside their race or religion, a whole bunch of stupid shit that really shouldn't matter, because what they are doing or who they are can be burden enough on them that they don't need extra pressure from anyone, especially not the society as a whole.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It hurt because I wanted nothing more than to be one of the guys again, and I was instead feeling punished.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.7.D. I knew that this was the beginning of the end of my membership with this chapter of _______.

What led to this?

*I didn't feel connected at all to anyone or anything that was going on there.
*I didn't feel like anyone would even care if I was hit by a bus, and that's not what a fraternity should be like.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I had had a relationship with this one woman, and I can clearly remember just sitting at dinner and just feeling disconnected from her. I knew that we would be breaking up soon, and we did. We just kinda drifted apart and stopped calling each other.

Did it connect to history?

*You can look at the disintegration of any of the countries that are in turmoil right now. I mean, even Canada is in turmoil... some better examples are like Yugoslavia, the former Soviet Union... people knew there were definite signals to the end of these nations as we had known them.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think the larger connection to power is just the ability to see stuff. I think the connection that needs to be made is the ability for a people to realize that something is disintegrating and make a choice to either help to destroy it or help to rebuild and fortify it.
*I think that is what happened in my situation... people had the choice as to whether or not they were going to rebuild our relationships or if they were going to tear them down... and they made the choice. No matter what I said about pressure from others, what they learned as a kid, it's all bullshit if you think about it, because these people had a choice.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think it helped a little, because I realized that there was really nothing I could do... there was no way that I could breathe life into this whole situation.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.7.E. I loved the institution of the fraternity so much that it wasn't something that I could ignore.

What led to this?

*I really had become a person who worked for the fraternity... it wasn't because I was out for the glory... I really wanted the fraternity to be the best on campus.
*I guess that I had believed in the institution and the institution failed me and that was one of the hardest things for me to deal with.
*I really wish I didn't care... that would have made everything so much easier.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, I mean look at my dad... he was a real bastard, but when he left, I still felt some attachment to him.
*The fraternity treated me almost as bad as he did.

Did it connect to history?

*I think that whole battered women syndrome is something that can be linked to this. You know when the cops show up on a domestic abuse call and they ask they woman if she wants to press charges and says... "NO, I LOVE HIM!" I can see why she was hanging on... she thought it was the only thing she had.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think it shows how interdependence can build up and when the situation shakes up, the person who is dependent will do everything possible not to loose their support.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*This hurt because I felt so betrayed.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.7.F. The other people who I embraced by coming out helped me as my friends in the fraternity
turned against me. Well, I wouldn't really say they turned against me, they just followed what was going on in the chapter.

What led to this?

*Coming out in general helped me to meet a lot more people than I ever thought I would.
*The gay subculture is amazing at universities... it really is. There are tons of people who you would never think are gay that are... I mean athletes, geeks, freaks, and just plain people that don't really fit any of the stereotypical categories.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, like when my parents divorced, I got a whole new set of relatives when my mom married my stepdad, and they were really nice. It was like I was just adopted by a new family.

Did it connect to history?

*The alliances during war are a great example of this... I am terrible in history, but I know one country switched sides in the middle of the war... that's kinda like what this felt like.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think it shows how import allegiances and alliances are to survive in society.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Of course, loosing the friendships I had in the fraternity helped, but I can't tell you how much better it was to have people who really understood me and what I was going through and who could answer the really hard questions I had to ask to understand who I was and where I was going, and better yet, why I did the stupid shit I did to make myself look like the good little straight boy.

4.7. They didn't do stuff like call me down to the basement to hang out with them.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.7.G. I don't really think I would have waved a magic wand. I think that what happened happened for a reason and I don't know that I would have changed that.

What led to this?

*I just knew that if I was losing these friends then they weren't real friends.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, this sounds so cheesy, but everyone's mom has to have told them this when they come home from the playground and their best friend for that week did something to piss them off and they're about to cry. I really wish I would have taken those words to heart, though.

Did it connect to history?

*As far as things happening for a reason... I think that history is replete with examples of this... I just can't think of one.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*No, I don't think so. I think this understanding is a really individual and personal thing that society affects but doesn't really shape.
*So I guess it does connect to society because societal influences dictate whether you will be able to understand and accept your situation.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*This helped me. I don't think I was giving up at this point, I think I was just being really smart and picking my battles.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.8.A. Nothing new.

Did not triangulate.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.8.B. Numb at this point.

What led to this?

*I guess I had gotten to the point where I understood what was happening around me and to some extent why and I just couldn't get myself angry about it anymore... you can only cry so many tears.
*I never really was the type to be all whinny and shit... plus I think I was a little to big of a person to let them see the emotions that I had about the whole thing so I just kinda ignored my feelings.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I don't ever really remember feeling this way about anything. I usually feel one way or the other, but here, I just felt really blah.

Did it connect to history?

*I don't know.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I don't know.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*It helped, because I wasn't all mad and shit like that, but also started to wonder why I wasn't feeling more pissed off or feeling anything at all.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.8.C. Nothing new.

Did not triangulate.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.8.D. The members themselves were the barrier.

What led to this?

*The fraternity has a really neat set of principles that say that we treat each and every member with respect and dignity and a whole bunch of other things that speak of kindness to humanity, perfecting ourselves socially, and you know... the standards fraternity ritual stuff... and these guys didn't follow it.
*The only thing I can blame for this is the members and their ignorance.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I know that when we were little kids, we made fun of everyone who was different and treated them like shit.
*Now that I look back on that, I understand that it wasn't them it was us. If we would have accepted them, or just acknowledged that different was O.K., we wouldn't have put these people through that kind of hell.

Did it connect to history?

*I think the biggest connection to history is how it repeats iteself.
*The thing that I look at and most fascinated by is the self-segregation of minorities.
*Follow me on this one. O.K. I live in the dorms... shitholes that they are... and so I eat in the dining
commons. I can't tell you how stupid I think it is that all the Asian students eat with each other and all the African-Americans eat at the same table. It just shows that it's not necessarily the society all the time, but it is the people.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think it shows how each member of society contributes to the ideas and ways of a society.

Did it help of hinder? How?

*While it hurt that these were the people who I thought I was closest to, at the same time, I was reassured that I really had something good... I still believed really strongly in what the fraternity stood for, as a larger organization, not necessarily the chapter.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.8.E. Nothing really helped.

Did not triangulate.

4.8. Slowly they moved me out to the fringes.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.8.F. I would have gotten the hell out of there before the end of the quarter.

What led to this?

*I was like just sitting there in a place that I didn't want to be with people who I didn't want to see anymore and who didn't really want to see me anymore... I was just not in a good situation.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I tried to run away one time when I was little, but I didn't make it very far. It was right before my dad and my mom divorced. It was like... they were all arguing, and even as a little kid, I knew it was going to be over soon, I just couldn't wait long enough.

Did it connect to history?

*You've heard all of those stories about the prisoners who were just days shy of parole and they try to break out of jail.
*I should have broken out of my jail.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*I think this shows how people can just be driven over the edge... I mean, I wasn't going psycho or anything, but I was really at the end of my fuse and I didn't see any way that I could have lasted very much longer.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Hinder? It fucking sucked. I was just in a bad environment.

4.9. I moved out and left university.

Did you have any questions, confusions, muddles?
4.9.A. No, not really. Everything was clear that I needed to leave and start again, so I didn't really have any questions.

Did not triangulate.

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.9.B. Relief.

What led to this?

*I could be me. I think that at one point, I thought about painting a big fucking rainbow on my apartment, but I decided not to... didn't want every fag this side of the Mississippi knocking down my door to get a peek at the new queer on the block!

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*I think two examples are when my dad left... like nobody walked around on edge anymore.
And, when I went away to college. Even though I wasn't that far away from home, I was still away from N__________, and the atmosphere was a lot more liberal.

Did it connect to history?

*People have been fleeing their homes and homelands for years to get out from under the burden of oppression. Hell, that's how this country got started.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It shows a couple things. I think it shows the power of society to repress individuals.
*It also shows the power of an individual to rise above the oppression of society.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Oh my god, it was like I was reborn.
*I felt like a million dollars.
*I didn't miss shit from [very strong expletives regarding two persons]

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

Did you have any emotions, feelings? What were they?
4.9.C. Opportunity

What led to this?

*I knew that I had a chance to start so many things over again and live my life again like a real person.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, like I said, when I came to the university, there were lots of opportunities, that was one of the reasons why I joined the fraternity in the first place.

Did it connect to history?

*I think the early settlers who came to the United States and those who even later ventured out west on the frontier are great connections.
*They were both looking to start their lives over for one reason or the other and saw escaping whatever they were leaving as a means to securing opportunity.
*Wow... I was like a queer pilgrim.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It totally does. It shows how oppression has the ability to dampen one's soul. But it also shows how the soul and the will can rise above oppression and make a better situation happen.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*This helped so much because I just kept thinking that I didn't have to be anyone's anything.
*I just had to be me and you know what, if that wasn't good enough for them, then they could go fuck themselves.

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

Did you have any conclusions, ideas, thoughts? What were they?
4.9.D. Homophobia can destroy someone's life if you don't know how to deal with it.

What led to this?

*I think I just somewhat felt like a vindicated man. I mean, I figured out how to deal with what was going on around me, partly because other people helped me, but partly because I was a strong person, and that really let me know that this whole thing could have made me do what a lot of other people do... like crack and take the easy way out by killing themselves, or getting into really heavy drugs... shit like that that doesn't help but fucks you up even more.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*A good connection is my grandfather. If that woman would have sued him, he could have lost everything just because he had to be a sexist pig. I mean, I love him, but what he was doing was like off-the-chart sexism.

Did it connect to history?

*Once again, look at the Jews who spent years in those filthy, shitty concentration camps. The people who dealt with the situation were able to survive and live to tell their stories.
*I know my situation was bad, in my mind, but I can't begin to imagine what these people went through... just to survive.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Like I have been saying all along -- society has the power to determine who it will reward for who they are and what they do and who it will punish for who they are and what they do.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think it helped me to know that I stuck it out and... didn't necessarily win or lose, but just made it through it.
*I don't think it is a win/lose situation, but I know I had to have won something because it made me a whole lot stronger of a person.

4.9. I moved out and left university.

Did you see anything in particular as a barrier/constraint?
4.9.E. No. I think that by moving away, I relieved myself of one of the biggest barriers in my life.

Did not triangulate.

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

Did you see anything in particular as helping?
4.9.F. Leaving

What led to this?

*I got the hell out of the situation.
*It wasn't me or who I was that was wreaking havoc on my life... it was where I was and the people I surrounded myself with.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Leaving N____________ was a really good thing for me.
*My parents wanted me to live at home and go to school because it would have been cheaper, but I knew that it was going to be so much better if I was able to get away from everything.

Did it connect to history?

*Same as the pilgrim story.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*It just shows that societal influences can wreck what you think is your home.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*Leaving was the best thing that I could have done in the situation because I was giving myself a chance to start over and be me from the very beginning.

4.9. I moved out and left the university.

If you could have waved a magic wand, what would you have done?
4.9.G. Yeah, think I would have waived the wand now. I definitely would have lived in a different place that was more accepting of people of different walks of life and sexual preferences, and all other differences.

What led to this?

*When I was in high school, I got to travel to Europe on this cultural exchange program, and I could just feel the difference of how much more free the society was than here.

Did it connect to your life or past experiences?

*Yeah, like I think when I was in Europe, I acted a little more free. I didn't act like I was out, but I didn't work as hard to hide that I was gay. I didn't need to.

Did it connect to history?

*I think the pilgrim example is a good example again.
*They were leaving because they felt the church of England was way to overbearing in their lives.

Did it connect to power in society in any way? How?

*Yeah, it shows that there can be forces in society which either foster acceptance or hatred.
*What is so fascinating about the whole thing is that these societies can co-exist with some amount of harmony.
*You look at it that way... no one is running out and condemning the Netherlands because it is acceptable to be gay there... no. People here in the US could care less and I'm glad.

Did it help or hinder? How?

*I think it would have made my life a totally different experience.
*It would have been like looking at a soap opera.

Respondent Profile

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Age: 22

Gender: Male

# Years of Education: 17

Ethnic Heritage: Irish

Kind of Job & Place You Work At: manager of shipping and stock

Kind of Job & Place Your Father Worked At: professional

Kind of Job & Place Your Mother Worked At: professional

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Site last updated 2/26/98